Supervision in Coaching with Katja von Glinowiecki: Unpacking Professional Reflection and Industry Standards

Katja von Glinowiecki

One supervisee was sharing a situation where she felt a lot of uncertainty. She picked a card, and all the others in the group also picked a card which they thought reflected the situation. And all of a sudden she realized, oh, okay, I see it through my eyes, but there are different views as well.

Tobi

Not all the answers came from within herself, she actually got feedback from other peers.

Katja von Glinowiecki

It's something which belongs to a healthy routine for a coach.

Tobi

As a coach you are there for others, you hold a space for them, you facilitate a process that helps them to grow. And sometimes this can be a lonely role that you find yourself in. At least it was like that for Katja von Glinowiecki, my guest on today's Making of a Coach. When she started out as a coach she got her training, she had her certificates, and she also had many clients from her networks in international cooperation and NGOs. But something was still missing. Despite constant client interactions, Katja actually felt lonely. She wanted a space to debrief difficult sessions, she wanted feedback on her potential blind spots, and for all of that she wanted more than just an informal chat with another coach. This is how she found supervision, to

Katja von Glinowiecki

Well, the most defining is probably my role as a mother, as a professional and a mother. And today it's definitely the role as a supervisor and a coach.

Tobi

And which projects or ventures are you most proud of?

Katja von Glinowiecki

Founding several ventures. There is one very close to my heart. It's the orientation coaching I do for young adults when they leave school and they have to take their first professional decision. What's going to happen with my life in the future? So that's something very close to my heart, and I enjoy it a lot. And the second thing, also important, and that's why I'm here today, is definitely Supervision Partners. It had a longer period of development to get there, but it's, I think, the most important at the moment.

Tobi

The first one also sounds very cool, but today we will dive into supervision eventually. But before that, I'm also still wondering, what do you spend most time on in your regular day?

Katja von Glinowiecki

I am constantly balancing family and my professional life. I never gave up working, because it's a part of me. I love my work, I love what I do, and if I don't, I have to change something. And that's probably the thing describing me best, that I always seek and search for improvement, also in my own professional life. So, balancing both and not forgetting myself, that's something I still keep on working on.

Tobi

I know you also had a long sort of corporate career before you found coaching and supervision. So if you weren't in coaching today, what would you do today?

Katja von Glinowiecki

Well, actually it's again connected to my motherhood, because I left corporate when I was pregnant with my first child. And we had to relocate because of the job of my husband. I was pregnant, I think in the seventh month, when we relocated back to Germany. We used to live in China at that time. And I started to be self-employed, and I started my career as a trainer, as a coach, as a supervisor. Before that, in my corporate world, I was working in very different fields. In HR, I was working in marketing, I was leading as a regional manager, I developed a new office for the German Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai. I was working in two provinces, taking care of all the German companies there. So I would probably work as a team lead somewhere, because I love to work in teams, striving for a common goal, changing the world to make it a better place. So that would have been a fancy corporate career, which I never pursued.

Tobi

And probably also quite international, as it sounds.

Katja von Glinowiecki

Definitely. So that's also something describing me. I used to live in Australia and France, in China twice, and in India. And that's just something I enjoy, working with different cultures, in different cultures, learning different languages, getting to know countries, people, regions. That's something very close to my heart as well.

Tobi

And that reality didn't happen, but instead you found coaching and supervision. And on that path, is there a particular book, podcast or person that inspired you?

Katja von Glinowiecki

I actually got inspired to become a coach with my first coaching. When my husband received a call to go to India for work, his company offered me spouses coaching. So that was my first connection to coaching. And I had an incredible coach from India, and she introduced me to this one-on-one format. Before that I was a trained workshop facilitator, I used to work with groups and teams, but not one-on-one. And that inspired me tremendously, and I started my coaching education. So that was definitely the one person who got me introduced into this world.

Tobi

Great. And now let me get to the question that I usually ask in the beginning. In your coaching practice today, who's your typical client, and what do you usually help them with?

Katja von Glinowiecki

In coaching I work with managers in phases of transformation. And that has a huge variety. Sometimes I call myself a life stage coach, because I like to see our life, also our professional life, in different life stages. No matter if you are a young professional just entering a corporate position, or if you come back from parental leave, or if you receive your first promotion, right? These are all transition phases. So I do coach professionals, from very junior positions to executives in C level. That's quite a range. But what they all have in common is a transformation. So they're in a phase where something changes. We all know our world is changing every day. The clients I like to work with are often women, female professionals, as they very often have more challenges in the corporate world.

Tobi

Okay, interesting. And that's you, Katja, as a coach. And then, earlier you said that if you had pursued your corporate career, you would be very much a team player. And

Katja von Glinowiecki

It is reflection in a structured, professional way, for professionals. Reflection for coaches. I do supervision for all the professionals who work with people, because it can get very lonely if you are in a professional conversation, in a one-on-one, which is what we do as coaches. Or if we lead a group of people. I recently started a supervision group with faculty members from a university. They work with students, they work with human beings, and we need this professional space, this safe space, to reflect, to grow in our profession, for our mental health and for our growth.

Tobi

So a wide variety of people who can participate. What is supervision not?

Katja von Glinowiecki

Very similar to coaching: it's not therapy. It's not a conversation you have in a coffee shop or in a supermarket with a friend or colleague. It's more than that. And it provides, I think most importantly, this structure and this regular approach.

Tobi

And what would be a classic challenge where you would say supervision is the right process to go into?

Katja von Glinowiecki

Well, maybe I start here with a little story of how I came to supervision. When I started off as a coach, I had clients. I was lucky enough that I worked with engineers, I worked with corporates, I had my certification. I felt good, I knew my tools, I had the right mindset, and here we go. And after a while I realized how lonely my profession felt. I felt like a solitaire somehow, even though I was working with human beings every day. So what was missing? At that time I didn't have a name for it, I didn't know what supervision is. Today I know, because I did my certification as a supervisor, but at that time I didn't. And I had peer coaching, so I asked peers for conversation. I looked for ways to

Tobi

And when you describe this aspect of loneliness, I can really relate. Of course, you're always in a different role as a coach from your client. So even though you spend time with another human being, some very in-depth, intimate time in a way, you are sort of separated. I know that from my personal experience, even more drastically in training seminars, where you also have a tight group experience, but when you are in the role of the facilitator you are always not really part of the group. There's the group of participants who go through this as peers, and you are sort of in this other role, which can oftentimes be a bit lonely.

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yeah, definitely. Because there's still my ethical approach as a coach. I have to stay neutral, staying non-judgmental, taking care that my own opinion about a situation or case, or whatever my client brings, doesn't kick in. And that's sometimes difficult, after a coaching session or even before, working in a client-coach relationship. So, just one example for supervision here: to have a place where I can go and reflect and unpack and look at the situation from different perspectives, that can help a lot.

Tobi

And to have a space where you can allow yourself to be opinionated. Only, you could also just talk with a peer, meet another coach, say, hey, can I talk this through with you, or just do that in a natural way. So I guess for an actual structured supervision there's probably more to it, some sort of developmental goal. How could that look a bit more specifically?

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yeah, that's a part of the partnering with the coach. The partnering is similar to coaching, but in a supervision conversation it is even more important, to see, okay, what does the coach, or my client in that sense, need here today? And sometimes they need to win. Sometimes we celebrate goals, celebrate successes. And I think what describes it best is a testimonial I received the other day. One of my clients said, well, supervision is my regular energy refill station. So it helps her to refocus, to stay connected with what really matters in her work. And especially that feeling of, I don't have to figure it out all alone, and that makes me a better coach.

Tobi

Yeah. So what you're saying is, if I am a therapist, then being a therapist is a protected profession with a defined quality standard, and it requires you to get supervision. For a coach that's not the case. That's why you, in your role, stress that point: dear client, dear customer, I am a coach who receives supervision, that helps me develop as a human being and as a coach, and provides a better service also for you.

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yeah. And here comes also my international perspective in, because I used to live in different parts of the world, and the coaching profession is seen very differently in different cultures, and so is supervision. For example, in some Asian countries, Singapore for example, they have a very strong market stance for coaches, and supervision is something very normal and regular. Every coach has a supervisor, it's completely normal. Similar to the UK in Europe, right? They have a very good approach, from certification to supervision, and they continue supervision. Another example is Romania, also a European country, where the coaching profession is protected. They also have a very different approach to supervision. It's something common, something which belongs to a healthy routine for a coach.

Tobi

Okay, thanks. For now, I would really like to unpack how I, as a coach, can imagine supervision. And to get us started with that, let's take the time to do a small picture card exercise.

Katja von Glinowiecki

I love metaphors, I love pictures.

Tobi

Awesome. Then let's pick a metaphor for what supervision is for you.

Katja von Glinowiecki

I go with my first intuition. That's the woman sitting next to the dog, looking at the lake.

Tobi

Cool. And how does that describe supervision?

Katja von Glinowiecki

Well, I see myself as a supervisor, as a partner, having established a trusted relationship with my supervisee. That can be a coach, it can be a manager, it can be someone professional. And we look at something, at a situation, we look at the lake, or at the river. And we see it from different perspectives, and we are able to share openly what we see, because we are in a very safe environment. And there could be another dog, there could be another person sitting there, but it's still a reflective space which we are entering, to see the world through

Tobi

Oh, beautiful.

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yeah, so there are different supervision tools. Like we have tools in coaching, we can also use tools in supervision. I think the main difference between coaching and supervision is the professional aspect. I coach people on their values, their strengths, their private sorrows, their professional challenges, whatever they bring into a coaching conversation. Supervision has a deeper professional aspect, while still looking at the person behind the profession. So that means, in a one-on-one supervision interaction the structure might feel very similar to a coaching process, where I get into a conversation in a trustful space. I need to have the right chemistry with my supervisor, so it's a very human connection, otherwise you could be supervised by AI. So there is this human part in it, and as a supervisor I have the possibility to also give feedback. I think a good supervisor also

Tobi

Okay, so that means there are some similarities between a supervision session and a coaching session, and that is, we come together, we have this sort of partnering process, who can I as a supervisor be for you, and also clarifying the goal, the issue, what did you bring here today? And then we also use coaching-ish methods, processes. But what I hear from you is that the difference is that at the center of supervision is more this, me thriving in my profession as a coach. And that means my supervisor is a more experienced coach than me and is also allowed to go a bit into a coach-consulting role, meaning they can also share their expertise, because this is also about me getting very concrete feedback and advice on my profession as a coach.

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yeah, that's a good description. I like the word coach-sulting. Maybe I give you an example from a conversation I had with my supervisor the other day. I described a situation I'm in professionally and I didn't know if my approach is the right one, which suits me, suits my situation. And my supervisor asked me, okay, Katja, how would you like me to react? And I said, right now what I really would need is open feedback from you. As a coach I'm not allowed to give feedback. Well, I'm allowed, but it's not an ethical approach, as I believe in my clients, that they have all the solutions and answers within themselves, and I help them to find them. But in a supervision context I'm able to ask for feedback. So supervision can sometimes also be a mixed profession of mentoring, consulting and coaching for professionals.

Tobi

Great. You just described the process, and you said you use similar tools to the ones you use in coaching, and you mentioned picture cards. How would you use picture cards?

Katja von Glinowiecki

I love to use picture cards in group supervision and also in one-on-one, in individual supervision, with a similar approach to what you just did. I show a set of cards and ask, for example, okay, how does that relate to your current situation? I let them pick, and I go through and see what's happening. And often the perspective changes. For example, in a group supervision I did a couple of days ago, I offered all the participants to pick a card. One supervisee was sharing a situation where she felt a lot of uncertainty and challenges around it. She picked a card, and all the others in the group also picked a card which they thought reflected the situation. And all of a sudden she realized, oh, okay, I see it through my eyes, but there are different views as well, through the different pictures we had all of a sudden. So we had five different pictures for one situation. In that case she developed a different kind of confidence, and of course she found a way to move forward, through reflecting, because all the other participants also shared, okay, why did I pick that picture, what do I see in here, and how does it relate to the situation the other coach shared? And she had a

Tobi

That sounds really powerful. And I think it also visualizes nicely how supervision is different from coaching, because in your example the coach, in her role as a supervisee there, shared her situation, and then not all the answers came from within herself, she actually got feedback from other peers. And all of that was happening in a process facilitated by you.

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yep. And it's so important that we are in a trustful environment, in a psychologically safe space which is non-judgmental. And that's how everyone enters this room. That sets it apart from many other situations where you coach a group or a team, where everyone has their own agenda, of course. In this context it's just a different work environment.

Tobi

And can you talk a bit about these relationship dynamics? Because it also sounds somewhat complex in a way. I would say a good coach is sort of invisible and just helps the client to come up with the answers themselves. But here I believe it's more complex, because as a supervisor, you said, you usually have more seniority, more experience, maybe more power than the supervisee. And I guess that gets much more complex when we have a group. So can you talk a bit about these relationship dynamics, maybe first in the one-on-one supervision setting, and then in the group?

Katja von Glinowiecki

I'm not sure if it's really more complicated. I mean, as a group or team coach you also have to be very flexible and agile, and to look at these team dynamics, or group dynamics, and you have to be aware of them. And in my groups, when I work with a regular group supervision, I have to make sure that the different personalities also fit together. So I don't call up a group of coaches and say, I start a new group supervision, everyone can come in. I make sure, and that's one of my responsibilities as a supervisor, that the group has a certain harmony, that they have a chemistry. And I think for the matching of such a group, I always have one-on-ones before we start the supervision process. I have to see and to feel, and what I do is I use my gut feeling and my experience, my expertise in here, and I think that's where the seniority kicks in. I use that to set up a small supervision group. They are never more than five coaches, so I have a maximum of

Tobi

And how do you set up these groups? You have one-on-one conversations with each of the group members. Are they actually also in a one-on-one supervision process with you, and then you say, okay, let's meet in a group setting? Or how does that look?

Katja von Glinowiecki

Sometimes that's the case. When I open a new supervision group, I send out an invitation to my network, through our newsletter and so on: we are starting a new group supervision. And there are some recommendations about how often that should take place. I schedule these groups according to time zones, according to individual needs, according to language, because both Nannette and I, we both do supervision in English and in German. So these are all factors we have to consider. And then I make a call and say, okay, we open a new group, who would like to join, and what are your preferences? We wait and see who comes, and we have quick one-on-ones, that's usually 15 minutes to half an hour. And we set up this group. Sometimes some of the group members are also individual clients for supervision, but it's not a must.

Tobi

And then the group meets at least once, but possibly also more often, it sounds like.

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yeah, we usually schedule yearly programs where we meet every quarter, so four times a year. I can also tell you why. There are a couple of organizations, for example the EMCC, the European Mentoring and Coaching Council, where for their certifications you have to have

Tobi

So roughly one supervision session for myself after every 35 coaching interactions. Interesting.

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yeah. Just for your professional hygiene. If you have additional challenges you can do it more often. But that's just a number where you as a coach get an impression of how often you should do that.

Tobi

And at Supervision Partners, in your own practice, what is sort of your main service? Is it the one-on-one or more the groups, how are the different buckets distributed? And compared to the supervision, how much coaching do you still do yourself?

Katja von Glinowiecki

It's really half half. And I still coach a lot, because I love it, I love what I'm doing. I would say 30 percent of my work time is coaching.

Tobi

And who are your supervisees, are these all coaches? Because earlier you also mentioned leaders. And how would it look from the supervisee side: when I sign up with you to do a supervision, how much does that cost me, and what sort of options am I buying? And for you as a business, what's the share of corporate versus individual clients?

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yeah. So we started off with coaches in our own profession, because that's our vision, our mission, to really get all the benefits I explained earlier out into the coaching world, especially in the DACH region. So for Germany, Switzerland and Austria, that's where we started off. By now we are getting more and more international clients, because we both work virtually quite often, because that's just a very common practice and it's easy, accessible and fits into your day. On the investment: many coaches or managers don't see the benefit in supervision yet, so that's why we keep on offering teaser supervisions, to make them feel what benefit they get from supervision. And it really depends whether you book a one-on-one or a group. Usually you can count on the same hourly rate as a coaching session would have. We have company rates and we have individual rates, and the individual rate varies between 150 euro and 250 euro an hour, just to give you a rough number. And for us as a business, it's half half. We would love to have more corporate clients, not because of the pay rate, but because of our experience that coaching in organizations is getting more and more common. And these coaches usually do a certification course to become a coach, and that's it. Very often they are not engaged with a coaching organization like the ICF or the EMCC or all the other bodies that exist. So they don't pursue this regular update of their skills. And supervision can help here, and that's why I think what we can really provide for

Tobi

internal coaching networks is a regular, structured way for developing your own coach personality, with all the benefits attached. And I can see that that makes sense for you from a business perspective, because of course it's nice to have these recurring corporate clients, but also from an impact perspective it sounds super useful. Because I guess many coaches who engage with ICF or EMCC to get certified also often do it for business reasons, right? They want to have that certificate, and get the supervision and the education as sort of a collateral benefit. But if I'm a coach employed in a big corporate who's going through a transformation, or I'm an agile coach working with technical teams, then I don't care so much about the ICF label, because I'm not required to have it to get clients. And that's why it's even more important that I have a space where I can work on my professional development as a coach.

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yeah, exactly. And additionally to that, I would like to add that it makes also our second target group, that we say we also offer supervision for managers who use coaching skills in their work. Because when you do that as a leader, coaching is not the pure core of your skills. Usually our managing clients have had a basic coach education, or they went through an executive course for coaches, and they use coaching skills in their work as a team leader, for example. And for them it's similarly important to reflect about their professional approach. That brought us to that second target group. That's why we say, okay, we offer supervision to coaches, but at the same time for managers, executives, or for facilitators or faculty members, everyone who is engaged with people.

Tobi

What keeps crossing my mind here is, this group supervision concept would be awesome for entrepreneurs. But I also think you couldn't call it supervision, because as an entrepreneur I don't want to have a supervisor, as in a boss. So you would have to frame it differently. And that's also something you mentioned earlier, when you said that especially in the DACH region supervision is not that common. And that's maybe simply the term. I think people would like the concept and the process, but the term sort of has this notion of hierarchy maybe. So what are you doing about that, to resolve that marketing problem?

Katja von Glinowiecki

Exactly, it is a marketing problem. That's why we are in the process right now of solving that marketing problem with an expert in marketing. So we work with a communication expert who is helping us to reframe the term. Because, as you said, we think of hierarchy, we think of control, it's negatively impacted just by the word. It doesn't transport the benefits I just explained. And on a current best guess for a good reframe: I always ask, when I leave a group supervision, or when I've had a teaser session, I always ask the participants, what is supervision for you? And they said, it's crowdsourcing. It's a mental wellness retreat for coaches. It's an energy booster. It's an aftercare after your coach education. It's a natural process. It's reflectivity. It's a non-class class for coaches. It's an energy refill station. So we have to channel that down into one single

Tobi

word, or a commonly more understandable definition of supervision. Please keep me posted. Earlier I thought about mentoring, but it's certainly not that. It's much more this open, safe space where I bring my stuff, versus mentoring. So if we made this a scale, then it would be coaching, mainly holding space, coach being in a very invisible role, then supervision, bringing in a bit of this, I can give you expertise and feedback on the role, all the way to mentoring, where I really tell you how you can do things.

Katja von Glinowiecki

Yeah, and there is the coaching aspect in it, don't forget the coaching. So there are different roles, and not in every interaction in supervision are they equally displayed, because that makes supervision so individual and flexible. I need to ask my client in that moment, my supervisee, what do you need right now? So you have this partnering, this who can I be. There is a lot of partnering, and I especially got trained in solution focused supervision, which is really focusing on the person in front of me.

Tobi

Cool. So how would the coaching profession change if supervision became the norm? Because I feel that this sort of standardization, this quality control, mainly makes the industry better for the coaches themselves. And if I am a coach listening who has never tried supervision, what would be my first step?

Katja von Glinowiecki

It would become more professional. And my biggest hope here is that we get more clarity for our clients about what a coach is, because there's a lot of variety in how you define what a coach is. So I really hope that it becomes a healthier place to work as a coach. So supervision is not just self care, it's professional care. And if you have never tried it: get in contact with us or with other supervisors, look up who is a supervisor. For me, I'm certified and accredited with the EMCC and also with the ICF as a team coach supervisor. So get in touch with us, get in touch with some of the professional bodies who are offering supervision. You can also always ask your coaching institute. Most of the institutes where coaches take their courses to become certified and accredited also offer supervision. Just do it for your professional growth, I would recommend. And have a couple of teaser sessions. It's like choosing a coach. Do you pick the first one? Do you pick one who got recommended? How do you pick a coach? And it's very similar for coaches: how do you pick a supervisor? I think it's very important also to have this, well, I don't like the term chemistry call, but I think it's important to see if the chemistry is the right one. Can we work together? Can we benefit from each other? And if not, keep looking for another supervisor. And thank you a lot for the conversation. I'm looking forward to the listeners who want to learn more about supervision and want to get to know the benefits of supervision.

Tobi

That's it for today. I really enjoyed how authentically Katja shared her own path, both from the supervisee and from the supervisor perspective. And what I would really like to pick up a bit more and go into in more detail are the methods and processes that she uses, especially for the group sessions she describes. Maybe we can do this one day in our metaFox community, because this is a space that we are currently launching for these kinds of purposes. We want to enable you to connect with Katja directly, but also with other coaches, facilitators and listeners of this podcast. We want to host not only these podcast conversations, but also more structured courses, and meet for regular exchange and practice calls. My co-founder Max is driving this right now, and if it sounds interesting to you, then go to join.metafox.community and be one of the first members to join for free and co-shape how this