Supervision Demo with Pictures and Dr. Nannette Reuther

Dr. Nannette Reuther

If I might step out of supervision for a moment, this reminds me of one of my trainers when I was trained to become a coach. She said something like, if it feels like work, something is wrong. Because in coaching you are working, because this is your job, but you are not doing the work for the client. So if it starts to feel heavy, if you're very busy, very engaged, it means that you're taking over something that's not even your role. That's a moment to pause and think about what is happening right now, and possibly even reflect it back to the client. What has happened? Why does it feel this way?

Tobi

Yeah. That's powerful.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yeah.

Tobi

You're doing too much.

Tobi

Supervision is a super powerful tool that helps you develop as a coach. That is what I already learned last year from Katja von Glinowiecki, you can go back and check out the episode. And yet I had actually never done supervision for myself and for my modest coaching practice. So, to find out how powerful coach supervision can really be, I invited Katja's business partner, Dr. Nannette Reuther from Supervision Partners. And instead of talking about supervision on a meta level, which is what I did with Katja last year, I had actually brought two different client cases where I thought I could benefit from supervision. And wow, did I learn how far theory and practice can be apart. The supervision with Nannette made me realize how desperately I

Tobi

If coaches come to you and ask for supervision, do they always bring concrete cases where they say, look, I have this client and this is the situation? Or how does that typically look?

Dr. Nannette Reuther

It can be a whole variation. It can be that a coach recognizes that with a specific client situation they feel stuck, or they feel a challenge. It could be that they realize this is not only a single session but, in the entire coaching relationship with a certain client, something feels unwell, or not right. And many coaches at some point share that they feel a bit exhausted, or they feel like they've over-coached, they've done too much, and they're trying to find balance again, or they're trying to find their joy again.

Tobi

So it can be a specific coaching situation, it can be a certain client engagement, it can be about how you feel personally. The wellbeing of the coach is incredibly important and completely underestimated.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Coaching can feel very lonely, because we support and we partner with the clients, to support them, to partner with them for a certain part of their path, and then we let go again. But at the end of the day, who do we talk to, and who do we reflect with? This is valid also for established coaches. And it's also valid, especially, for young coaches, in terms of younger in experience. You know, when you go through the coach training and then you pass your exam and you think, I'm a coach, I can coach. But then you start getting your first clients and you have very different challenges from what you've had before in a coaching situation. And you start doubting yourself. Am I prepared for this? Is this a coachee that maybe I should refer to psychological support, or not? Where are my boundaries? What is the client expecting me to do? And then, all of a sudden, you face yourself with all these questions and you don't have anybody to talk to. And that's where supervision is also a place that prevents you from solving everything by yourself. Which is also why group supervision can be so great, because you learn in a group. The open sharing can open up others, because I've had groups where someone said, I hardly dare to admit it, but I'm exhausted, I feel like I've lost the joy. And all of a sudden two, three others said, oh, I'm so grateful you said that.

Tobi

And that's what you've done a lot of. So, you are an executive coach. You worked as a project manager, a change manager, throughout your career in many different countries, being a consultant for one of the Big Four. Nowadays one of your main projects is Supervision Partners. And one other method in your toolbox is pictures.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Oh, yes.

Tobi

So, to slowly ease into this topic, I was wondering, can you complete the sentence for me? A picture in supervision is worth a thousand words because, dot dot dot.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

A picture is worth a thousand words because, first of all, it bypasses the logical part of our brain. Because we don't want to think everything through, we want to feel it, we want to touch it, we want to address our emotions. And this way we access our creative part of the brain, which is where we are resourceful. When we are stuck, we're stuck in the logical part of our brain. So if we keep rotating in that logical part, we tend to just rotate, like in a computer game, and we don't move. So we want to pass over the bridge, and there's science behind passing that bridge to the creative part of our brain. And that's what images do. And that's why it's so important that we use an image without text, ideally just an image. And it speaks to our perception, our feelings. Another reason is that it's very, very fast.

Tobi

Yeah, I know that very well from both a coach and a client perspective. Just before we started recording you also mentioned my podcast recording with Jasmin Messerschmidt, where I hopped into the client's shoes and really also experienced this, working in depth with one picture over an hour long coaching session, and using that to bypass the cognition, in a way, and then also using it as an anchor. So both of these aspects that you just mentioned, they can be really powerful.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yeah.

Tobi

And how does that play out in supervision? Because now you also gave us a coaching example. Can you give an example of how that can look in supervision?

Dr. Nannette Reuther

That works really, really nicely, and you can use it at several stages. For example, last Friday Katja and I just started a new round of supervision cycles. There was one group in German that started, and another group, an English speaking group. And we used a picture of a library, and we invited our participants to just look at the library and feel, what does that picture evoke in them if they think about themselves as a coach? And then you can really be playful. And it was so interesting to see what the different people saw in that picture and how that refers to them being a coach. That's the big difference, don't forget: it's not coaching the coach. We're not talking about the people themselves, we're talking about who they are as a coach, how they feel as a coach. And that's very important in supervision. And then,

Tobi

Yeah. So if I try to deconstruct what you've been sharing: you offer the group of supervisees one image, so not plenty of images to select one from, but you say, okay, here's a library, and in this library, where are you as a coach? And then you really work with this metaphor, going into the books, into the different corners of the library. If you write a book about your journey as a coach, how would it look? So you really get deep into working with this one metaphor.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yes. This was because in a group situation you can also play and have a choice, and everybody picks an image that speaks to them, and then they speak about that. That is another approach. It's about being playful, we don't use the same approach every single time. And then, for the question, I would use a question that's very much touching their emotions. What do you feel when you see that picture? What speaks to you? And then you can start moving around. And then you can maybe say, imagine you're zooming in, you're zooming out, you're expanding the picture, but always talking to your senses. And then the same applies if you do one-on-one supervision, which we also do. You can provide some cards, just like you have with metaFox. You provide some cards and then you can ask the client, which image speaks to you as to how you feel as a coach? How do you feel right now? What has maybe changed, or which image would you like to be in?

Tobi

Cool, thanks for sharing this example. In order to get more hands on, we agreed that I would bring a few concrete cases from my modest coaching practice, and I did. So I would suggest we can now go into this.

Tobi

So, the case that I have is what I called the storyteller client. It's a client who contacted me because he had a relatively acute issue about his family situation. It's also a relatively tough story. And we ended up spending a lot of the initial coaching session just with him venting and giving me sort of his life story of how he ended up in this place where he is today. And I sensed this sort of impatience, where I had this impulse to say, can I stop you there for a second? Is this something I need to know, or in this detail? Or could we rather have a look at, what does that do to you, how does it feel to you? And I did that once or twice, but he kept circling back and giving me his story, where I felt like, this is not getting us anywhere, this is not really helping him. And I couldn't really take the steering wheel and bring this to a more solution focused, future focused conversation. What would you say about such a situation?

Dr. Nannette Reuther

You already mentioned the steering wheel, so you already brought in your image.

Tobi

Yeah, that's a good one. Because the moment I phrased it with the steering wheel, I noticed, well, of course it's not my role as a coach to have the steering wheel in my hands. I'm rather in the co-pilot seat.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

So that brings up two things. One is, looking at your role. You said you wanted to be in the driver's seat, at the steering wheel. Notice there's a shift from what you just said, where you wanted to be, and then what you're realizing as you're reflecting on it, where you would now put yourself. So imagine yourself being in that. What would you want your role to be? What is your role as a coach?

Tobi

Yeah, it is obviously the passenger, or maybe the one who gives prompts that help the driver, the client in this case, to decide where they want to drive and how they want to drive.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Now you're triggering a word that I often stumble over: helping the client. Do we help our clients? So, what are you really doing with your client as a coach?

Tobi

Helping them to help themselves, maybe. So it's a very indirect way of helping.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yeah. Do they need help? Does your client need help?

Tobi

For this particular client, I know where you're getting at, because of course, as a coach, I want to assume that they are perfectly capable of managing their life's challenges. And at the same time, in this particular case, I was also wondering, wouldn't that already be a case that kind of requires therapy? I also had this, am I competent enough to handle that? So that's why, in this particular example, I don't find the answer to, do they need help, super obvious, as I would maybe find in other cases.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

So, just imagine you get to the car for your session with your client. He or she is taking a place in the driver's seat, you're sitting down in the passenger seat. And then you mentioned that you feel like your client is driving blinded, so imagine, blindfolded. What would you do as a passenger if you see the driver is blindfolded, before taking off, before leaving the parking space?

Tobi

Maybe I would tell them, actually I would kind of reflect that back, saying, look, I have the sense that the story, and how you are mentally entangled in it, is blinding you, is preventing you from really seeing the actual situation, how it is right now. And maybe that would already be a big shift.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

What is the shift that you're just noticing?

Tobi

I guess, being able in that moment to tell them, look, I believe you can't see what's in front of you. Or, I have the impression, rather than I believe, assumes that they are competent and that they would understand that, and that once they take off the blindfold we could have a more constructive conversation.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

And it puts your conversation at a different level, because you're not getting into the coaching session, but yet you're contracting about what the coaching session is about. And actually, for those people who are members of the International Coaching Federation, it's about evoking awareness, and about contracting, all those core competencies that this speaks to.

Tobi

a conversation.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Having a conversation about, where does the client want to go? And maybe a step before, what does the client need at that moment? Because maybe that client, let's take the picture of the car again, maybe that client at that moment first needs to drive to a dump, take the time, dump everything, and then say, now the car is lighter, now I can drive where I really want to be driving. Maybe there's a shortcut and they recognize, yeah, there is something, but let's take a shortcut and get to the topic. By the way, this is a nice distinction also between coach training and supervision. In coach training, and I've done that before, you can develop a whole collection of ideas of how you can interrupt a client when they tend to speak very long, when they add more and more that might derail you from the actual case, that might take you away from what you have contracted. So there are a lot of things that, as a tool, as a technique, you can acquire as a coaching technique in

Tobi

Yeah. And we got to this point that you mentioned, like, okay, where would you drive, and then having this conversation on an eye level and assuming the client is competent. I would say I knew all that, I was just impatient with getting to this point, and eventually we got there. So I think it worked out fine in the end. I just had the feeling, or I felt this pressure as a coach, in this first session already, for it to be useful: we will need to get to a point where he stops complaining and giving me his life story. And I know that to some extent also from the couples therapy that my wife and I have been doing. Our therapist there, she's also doing a really good job with me, because I also have this tendency, obviously, if you're listening to this podcast, to give lengthy explanations and believe, okay, I want to give all the context so they can really understand. And then the therapist also sometimes says, Tobi, can I stop you there for a sec? And that's exactly what I felt like I would want to do with this client. But it was so hard to do that in the right moment.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

So you're noticing you're mirroring the client, but then you're seeing your own patterns.

Tobi

Yes.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

So that speaks to where you are in terms of coach position. What is your coach position? Where are you as a coach, and where is Tobi coming in? Because, you know, a part of you being a coach is also always still yourself. You're always influenced by who you are, and the art is being in that coach position and staying in there for the coaching session, and recognizing where your own patterns might kick in.

Tobi

Yes. And I see that a bit as a double-edged sword, because I believe being aware that I have this tendency myself also helped me in this moment to relate to this client, and to sort of show empathy. So I see where you're coming from when you say, staying in the coach position and not bringing my own baggage. At the same time I have my doubts about whether that is a hundred percent possible. And in the end I'm also thinking, couldn't it also be a benefit that I'm familiar with this challenge?

Dr. Nannette Reuther

I have a picture that just came up when you were talking about your baggage. What about, you put your baggage in the boot of the car for the time being? It's still there, but it's not impacting the way you're driving. But you're right. And this is why reflecting on this is so energizing and insightful, because we bring ourselves there. It's impossible not to bring ourselves. But to which degree do we want to bring ourselves, and to what degree is it professional to bring it, and what do we recognize in the coaching session, or after the session, that has happened? So, in your case, I was wondering, what is different in this specific client situation compared to other situations, where you maybe feel less that you're bringing your baggage?

Tobi

Well, I guess in this case it struck a chord, where I could see myself to some extent, and that's not always the case. Sometimes I notice the issues that clients bring, and I would say most of the time I can relate, having experienced that on some level myself, but in some cases it's further in the past and it's already more resolved. I have already worked through this. Other topics from other clients, and in this particular case, maybe it was still closer to my heart, to my current life situation, that brought me to be quite involved in there.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

How would you like it to be?

Tobi

Yeah. Ideally I believe it wouldn't be like in this case. Ideally I think I would have the baggage more in the trunk, kind of knowing, okay, it's there, I can relate, but I'm not tangled up in it. I'm not falling over my own baggage while having the coaching conversation. I know this baggage is somewhere in the trunk, or maybe even at home. So I don't fall over the baggage.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

So, imagine the next session you might have with this client, and preparing for that session. What could support you in the moments while you prepare for the coaching situation?

Tobi

Letting go and leaving my baggage consciously there.

Tobi

Maybe doing a small meditation exercise beforehand, and then really being fully with them. I often like wearing my headphones for these coaching conversations, because they give me the sense of being fully immersed in the client's world, of being a hundred percent with them. And then I also don't fall over my own baggage, because it's really not there, I'm really fully with them. So I think it's also a question of attention and focus, being with the client, that helps there.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Imagine you are able to do this in the next session. What would that make possible for you as a coach?

Tobi

I would be more patient, I believe. Because this performative stance of, ah, I have to deliver value in this first session, or, now we are beyond the first session, but this performative thing would sort of be less strong, because I could be there with them. I think that is the main aspect of it. I could be patient. And yet, being able to fully be with them would also maybe allow me to find the right time to say, look, can I stop you there for a sec? Let's take a step back, zoom out. Noticing the right time to do this.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

How did it feel for you when you just said, could I, or might I stop you there for a sec? Maybe even saying, for the purpose of your goal, or for the purpose of getting the most out of this coaching session, I might interrupt you. How did you feel saying that?

Tobi

Yeah, it feels more light. It goes from, you have to, to, you can. Kind of taking the pressure away.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

So, looking at what we've spoken about so far, what has evolved for you? What has changed since we started speaking?

Tobi

Ah, it's so familiar. No matter if I'm coaching or being in a leadership role, it's often about having high standards for myself, and then also bringing these high standards to the people around me. And being able to be fully present and leaving my baggage at home, or in the trunk at least, allows me to really go into the passenger or co-pilot seat rather than the driver's seat, and to let the other people truly take the steering wheel.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

So, Tobi, now we've had a conversation about you moving, shifting seats, from the driver's seat to the passenger seat. How do you feel in the passenger seat right now?

Tobi

That's nice. This is actually useful.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Moving forward, what else might be beneficial for us to talk about, about this situation? Or is this coming to a moment where you think you've got what works for you?

Tobi

Yeah, I think this was helpful. And I think we can maybe close this case, talking now not in the supervisee but in the podcast host role.

Tobi

The other case that I brought, I called it the intellectual one. And now that I look at it, I didn't notice this before, but it is somewhat similar. It's a different client, a different person. And here I was using an inner team methodology with them, because it seemed quite obvious. And maybe I can share an abstracted version of the conversation we had.

Tobi

So I was running this coaching session on our metaFox online coaching platform, working firstly on sort of externalizing the issue, after some partnering. And in very rough strokes, it was sort of an, is this good enough, topic. Like, am I good enough, and how can I be good enough in the complexity of everyday life? And then we dug into, okay, who's actually saying this is not good enough? And we brought out a critic, an analyst inner voice, a pleaser inner voice, I always have to make the other people happy. And at this point I thought it would be useful to look at, what is it that these people need? The analyst, the critic, maybe also this inner child that has a fear of not being good enough, not being happy. And I wanted to bring this to a place where we could bring in the inner leader, and the inner leader could tell the inner voices, I'm here for you, it'll be fine, I appreciate the concerns that you bring up. So, bringing this to a space where they can say, ah, these inner voices, they're actually appreciated. We sort of replace the lightning bolt with a heart. We look at, what does the critic bring, what can we appreciate them for?

Tobi

And this turned out to be very hard, because the client was not interested in visiting this critic, this inner child, and giving them a hug, which in my experience I have experienced to be very powerful. So that was the case. And my struggle, in a way, was, how can I get this client out of their explanations towards what is going on on a feeling level? That was the challenge, in a way.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

What pops up in you right now as you describe the case?

Tobi

Yeah, somehow, as I describe it, it seems again very much like I wanted to bring the conversation here. Again, I as a coach was not in the co-pilot, in the passenger seat, but sort of thought I would be the one to drive somewhere. In the conversation, I have to say, it didn't feel that way. So when I present it now, when I talk about the case, it becomes very obvious that of course it's not my role to impose what I believe would be a good solution for them. And yet I felt they would really benefit from bringing this felt kindness, and not only this super rational, this is where I believe this is coming from, blah blah blah. I thought I would really want to find a way to help them give themselves a hug, instead of trying to solve it on a cognitive level.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

As you describe this case, and we reflect on the last case you described, what pattern might you be noticing here?

Tobi

Yeah, as I just mentioned, it's in both cases. Maybe I'm still too much in the, okay, I need to fix something here, or I need to bring them to a certain place where I believe they should be. Talking about coaching on this podcast, I of course know that this is not my role, and yet, I think it's this, I want to be helpful, I want them to be happy.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Do they want to be happy? Do they want to be helped? What have they defined as the goal of the coaching?

Tobi

I think in both cases, when we did this contracting work, both of them actually brought up that they also want feedback. I knew both of them from previous work contexts, so I guess they had also gotten to know me as, I don't know, a solution finder in a way. And they also brought that kind of role up in the contracting, when I was actually telling them, well, I'm not here to solve your problem. So in the contracting phase of the collaboration we even talked about this. I would say maybe they even want me to tell them to their face what I believe would be good for them. Of course I don't want to do that, this being a coaching session, but maybe on a subconscious level I actually am doing that. That's what I'm realizing now as we have this conversation.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

If you were transforming that into an image, if you're using one of your images, what image might describe how you feel about this client situation?

Tobi

Let me actually do that here.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yeah, and feel free to pick one, if you've got one.

Tobi

So the question is, what image describes the client's situation?

Dr. Nannette Reuther

What describes you and your situation as a coach in that situation. And, if I might just add, that's a very big distinction, and something that we often recognize in the supervision conversation: we speak about client situations or client scenarios, but the topic is the coach and the development of the coach. And over the course of the supervision people then try to steer into, how can I solve the client situation? But we're not looking at the client, we're looking at what it all does with you.

Tobi

Yeah, maybe that one.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

You just mentioned that that is exhausting. Tell me more about that feeling of it being exhausting for you as a coach.

Tobi

Yeah. I think it is, to some extent, my insecurity, that I really try hard for the coaching session to be useful. And that is where a lot of this, ah, let's go there, this is where the wellbeing is, where this sort of mindset comes from. And me having to think about where the wellbeing is, and then how I can get them there, is exhausting.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

How would you like it to be?

Tobi

Maybe I can pick another picture.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Tell me more about the pressure going away.

Tobi

Yeah, I was thinking about that, because the second I said that I was also wondering, what if they actually expect me to tell them where their wellbeing is? I think it goes back to this contracting, and having alignment on what is my role, what is their role.

Tobi

And I believe, for me to be really present and really be able to take a seat in the passenger seat, and be more of the coach, less of the consultant, I would have to make that crystal clear in the contracting, so that I don't have, or don't believe there to be, this expectation of, well, now, Tobi, show me how the world works. So that we can both stand there and look into the blurry distance.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

So, we're just looking at, you're speaking about contracting being important for you, in the way you're contracting, moving forward with this client and maybe others.

Tobi

Yeah. Maybe realigning on what is our understanding of coaching and of the coaching relationship that we have. And maybe I can also ask, you know, not even saying, look, in coaching I'm not supposed to give you any hints, instead of teaching them, I could ask them, what do you expect from me? And, depending on what they say, maybe I can actually explain, look, I believe I can be more useful if I am not the expert for you, but I am an actual coach, because that will enable me to really let you come up with the solution.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

How does it feel for you, having the thought of letting the client find their solution?

Tobi

Yeah, I would say it becomes more light. I can let them point into the distance and take the first step. And it's not me who says, oh, there, let's start walking. It's a much more pleasant role to have.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

I noticed the smile on your face. So, what would it need for you? Because it's also about letting go, in a way, isn't it? What do you need to be able to let go?

Tobi

Confidence that I'm a competent coach, and not having this desperate need of having the coaching session that really changes the trajectory of their life. Just tuning down a bit the expectation that I have.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

And remember, the checking in, the contracting, doesn't only happen in the beginning.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

It also happens throughout the coaching engagement. It can be in a session, it can be halfway through, either in the way of quickly checking in, or sometimes even recontracting, if the goal has changed or if something changes. So it's something that not only happens in the beginning. And I was wondering, if you look at your left picture again, you as a coach now, or maybe you as a coach in a specific situation: how could this image support you? How could having that image in mind support you in shifting from the left picture to the right picture, in a coaching situation?

Tobi

I think this metaphor of, am I trying to collect this spilled coffee, that's a good marker, a good reminder,

Dr. Nannette Reuther

And how is that image going to influence you being a coach? How is that image going to shape you, or influence you, in the way you show up as a coach, also in other coaching situations?

Tobi

It allows me to be more centered, more patient, more present, knowing that I don't have to run after the coffee drops.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yeah. And if you feel like this running, or, as you mentioned earlier, exhausting, if those emotions come up, that is always an invitation for you to stop and pause for a moment and look at what's happening in the session right now. What's happening with me, and where do we want to take this? What are indicators that you notice in a coaching situation that tell you, this is not where I want to be in my coaching partnership?

Tobi

Yeah. I guess one alarm bell for me could be, I have a very clear idea of where I want to go with that client. If I have the plan for the session already mapped out in my mind, then that's probably an alarm signal. And yet letting go of that is also a scary idea. Like, okay, what then? If I don't have my plan, what then?

Dr. Nannette Reuther

So imagine we talk again in about three months, whenever we meet, and you tell me that you find it easier to embrace this blurry situation, stepping into a coaching conversation without having planned it through, open in your mind to wherever it has taken you, wherever the client is leading you. What will tell you what has changed about you, and about you being a coach?

Tobi

I can just be there, I would say. I would tell you that the coaching sessions that I have right now, they are, I don't want to say a holiday, but they are hours where I can actually sit back and just be with the client. I heard this from another coach, like, oh, for me coaching is actually relaxing, because I just sit with them, I listen, once in a while I drop a question. And when he talked about this I almost had this sense of, man, are you taking this seriously? That was sort of the question that rang in my head. But actually I think that's where I want to get to, where I can be so relaxed and at ease with myself as a coach that I can say, well, for me that's actually a refreshing activity.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yep. If I might step out of supervision for a moment, this reminds me of one of my trainers when I was trained to become a coach. She said something like, if it feels like work, something is wrong. Because in coaching you are working, because this is your job, but you are not doing the work for the client. So if it starts to feel heavy, if you're very busy, very engaged, it means that you're taking over something that's not even your role. That's a moment to pause and think about what is happening right now, and possibly even reflect it back to the client. What has happened? Why does it feel this way?

Tobi

Yeah. That's powerful.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yeah.

Tobi

You're doing too much.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yeah. If it feels like work, something is not okay, because you might have stepped out of coach position, actually, you might have stepped out of your role.

Tobi

Yeah, that's a good metaphor to take with me, actually. The image that comes up is sort of this, I don't know, chilling at the beach in a hammock with the client. And that's how it's supposed to feel, similar to my two Lego pieces looking into the blurry distance.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

How was that for you, supervision with images?

Tobi

Yeah, it didn't feel too dissimilar from being a client in a coaching session. Just that I bring this situation, or this issue of, okay, coaching is tough, coaching is exhausting. And I like the outcome. I like the two metaphors. I like the, coaching shouldn't feel like work, that is a good slogan that I will take with me. How did you approach this now? What was the model that you had while leading me through this supervision session? Was the future blurry at all times, or did you have an idea of where we go?

Dr. Nannette Reuther

To be honest, I went with the flow. When we have group supervision, we sometimes need to give it a bit more direction, for the sake of time, because we typically have four to six people joining over five sessions and we want to make sure that everybody gets to present their cases or their questions at some point. So we need to facilitate the group a little bit, and then sometimes we use certain techniques about how we look at cases. Now, in this one-on-one case, I literally just went with your flow. I followed you, I let you go in the driver's seat of your own supervision, and tried to find out where you want to go. What would best support you in discovering a bit more of who you are as a coach, what you want, who you want to be, where you would like to evolve? Because for me, supervision is a good check-in. It's like, you take your car for a service, not only when it's broken but in between, and you fill it up with liquids and all of that. And it's a bit of what we're doing in supervision. So you have a moment to reflect on what needs a bit more, where's too much pressure, where could it be a bit more? And that's for you to find out. And I try to be playful with the pictures that either came up or that you chose, and, because they're your pictures, hopefully they can support you in your further

Tobi

For you, supervision is also something.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Something that keeps you going, that gives you energy, that gives you a motivation booster, that makes it feel playful.

Tobi

I could see that. I'm curious to what extent having these images will shape the next coaching sessions, so I can feel that.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

I would love to have a conversation with you about that, about how that is moving on, especially the picture about the coffee that's pouring out, and how that might pop up as a reminder. But honestly, of course, like in a coaching situation, we try to find out what is important for you, what the situation is about, what you want to take away. But there was no default flow that I have to follow, because if I had that in mind I would also lose you as my client, as my supervisee, in this situation, because it's about you. It's not about what I want to achieve.

Tobi

Yeah, thank you. And I can feel that, how you phrased it earlier, this rekindling the joy. And I'm looking forward to bringing these insights to my next coaching session. Bringing this to a close, I'm wondering: if I'm now a coach who has listened to this conversation between the two of us, Nannette and Tobi, and maybe I can relate to the points I brought up, maybe I cannot but I have completely different struggles,

Tobi

how could I get started with getting supervision?

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Reach out to people who are trained and accredited supervisors. Careful, don't confuse it with coach mentoring, which is just trying to take you towards meeting, for example if you're with ICF, meeting the ACC, PCC or MCC markers. Seek out someone who specifically is an accredited coach supervisor. You can try it out one-on-one, see how it feels. You can join a group. Definitely have a conversation with your supervisor to find out, would that be a fit? Just like in coaching: do you feel comfortable with the person? So, for example, Katja and I run sessions every two weeks about, ask me anything, and then we just open up, what is supervision about, and you can ask any question. So, before engaging in supervision, just ask any question. It's for people who know a little bit, but it's definitely also for people who've never heard about the concept and have never tried it, to find out if this is

Tobi

Nice. Those ask-me-anything sessions with you sound like a great starting point. And if I say, okay, now specifically this group supervision with Nannette and Katja looks super interesting,

Tobi

what's the rough budget I should plan for here?

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Ah, that depends on who the provider is. We offer a six month program with five sessions, two hours each. We specifically picked a longer format, some have only one and a half hours and we felt it can feel very compressed and rushed. So we've got two hours, and we only take between four and six people. We don't take any more than six people in the group, to make it private and to really respect everybody in the group, and to also keep the confidentiality and to keep the group together. And those 10 hours, by the way, are fully accredited. Because we're accredited supervisors, we can give people certificates that they participated, so they can use it for their ICF CEUs. Or, if you're in the EMCC world, you're very used to having supervision. So you probably need about 800 to 900 euros for those five sessions, depending on whether you, we have certain reductions for returning clients, because often they've gone through a cycle and then they continue.

Tobi

Okay. But the standard format would be a half year process, in a group of four to six,

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yeah, yeah.

Tobi

Sounds good.

Tobi

Then I say, thank you, Nannette, for today, and I'm looking forward to talking with you about how I am as a coach half a year from now.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

Yes, lovely. Thank you for inviting me for this podcast. Thank you for being open to being my supervisee today, and for sharing two of your situations, and for showing yourself vulnerable in here, and for the images you picked and created in here and that you shared, and for creating this space of learning for all the listeners. And I hope it's inspiring.

Tobi

It definitely is for me. Thank you.

Dr. Nannette Reuther

You're welcome.

Tobi

So that's it with The Impactful Coach for today. I definitely took a lot from this supervision with Nannette. And if you are now also curious to give this a try, I can recommend our other supervision episode with Nannette's business partner, Katja von Glinowiecki. And you heard it, there's the ask-me-anything call with the two of them.