Ebony Fagbuyi: Coaching Leaders in Collaboration with Top B2B Platforms

Meaning, I might be a pain in the backside. However, that's me right now, and a good environment can help me actually grow, shape, become better at not being such a pain in the backside. I would say a good environment is also determined by where I personally stand. Meaning, if I still want to grow and

I'm the biggest fish in the pond, it might not be the right environment. Although it's nice, it's comfortable, everything's fine. But if I have outgrown that environment, maybe it's time to say bye to that one and find a new one where I can grow.

Most of these leaders get to Ebony through coaching provider platforms, pools of coaches that partner with businesses and enable leaders to book a coach. For Ebony this takes away some hourly margin, but also a lot of exhausting marketing hustle. Let's hear it from the beginning, and from Ebony herself.

Who is your typical client, and what challenge do they usually come to you with?

And what they do is they acquire the big companies that are looking for coaches within their organization to help their leaders develop. And then when they have these contracts, they have a pool of coaches, and they say, we can match your staff or your leaders with those coaches.

A lot of them actually come through those avenues. Which makes it nice for a coach, because I don't have all the marketing acquisition and all of that. My part is getting onboarded with one of those, or multiple of those, and then receiving the clients who are matched. However, my usual go-to was, and still is, word of mouth.

I'm also connected to one that does more mental health. And there I see a lot of people coming through, rather than through the typical business coaching area.

So I can recommend to listeners who say, hey, I like this avenue, I have never experienced that or heard about it, to think of where to onboard themselves, and to also think of those who are in mental health, because coaches are needed and necessary there as well. Although there would most likely be a differentiation internally between therapists, counsellors and coaches.

I like that they call them experts, and we can exchange as well. Or if I have a client who might need therapy right now and I want to refer them, I can refer amongst us and say, hey, who is there? So I like all these kinds of aspects. That is one that I can recommend. Then there is also Sharpist.

Sharpist is one that I know of with regard to leadership and business, although those are a lot of the time also aspiring leaders, starting their journey. And then of course there are plenty of others, but I don't know them directly. So I can just say, do some research on the companies that are there.

What is coaching? What is it not? How can it help? And from that basis they make the decision on which coach they go with. And then it goes back to the HR person: you can start making the appointments and reach out to one another.

So that's where their discussion is. I am not in the picture. Then Sharpist receives the hundred and they are matching the hundred with what they know about them. They have conversations around that and give information like, this is what we do.

This is how we do it. And then they match. They receive the client's data automatically, with a hundred coaches, or 50, or whatever. The big work is done by Sharpist, basically. Does that make sense?

I have others who are exploring internal thought patterns and behaviors, where they see, I'm actually building up a wall here. I'm not getting anywhere, but I don't know why I feel this way.

And now you land on a page with a prompt question that is, which picture describes you as a coach?

So that's what it is. And the stairs have walls left and right. So there's no open space. It's just this staircase up.

So if they see walls, blockages, whatever that is. That's what I resonated with.

What also comes with the observer perspective is that as a coach I am not so much completely in the process.

So I look on a plain canvas and paint that path. That, I guess, is the internal map, the lens one looks through. That describes a coach. I feel like coaches, in a classical way, are there to hold the space, to see the blank canvas that they can freely move into and through.

I'm just helping to develop the picture of their life, if that makes sense.

also have internal trainers and coaches. For communication, for sales and all these processes. And when I was coached there, I felt quite empowered.

I practiced it myself, because that's my learning model. I do things first and then I go to the theoretical part, like, what have I actually done there? However, when I then did my base training for coaching, I realized, oh, there's much more to it, and it looks a little bit different. Which means it's shaped into what kind of question am I asking.

And I saw even greater results through that than what I had seen before. And I thought, my God, this is actually really great. I also understood both ways, of what it does with me and how I can apply it to a person who wants coaching.

I took that into consideration, because I had seen it firsthand. And learning a little bit more about how businesses work and so on, I looked through a new lens when I was in different companies working there myself.

And in that I needed to showcase some sort of leadership. Looking back, I guess, going first. Modeling what you were teaching. There is the saying, practice what you preach. So I did the things, and that's how it became a companion, I would say. Throughout my development, leadership was always there.

So, coming out of the role as a trainer and coach and stepping into the official role of a leader of a team or department.

A leader has a great influence on environments, on people's minds, on what they think about X, Y, Z.

Not in terms of rules or laws, but a certain agreement about what is happening here and why we're coming together. So when I'm part of that and in that environment, then, I think a good environment helps you to grow. And growth can happen when I can show up as the authentic me, even as my flawed me.

Meaning, I might be a pain in the backside. However, that's me right now, and a good environment can help me actually grow, shape, become better at not being such a pain in the backside. So I believe that's a good environment. And then I would say a good environment is also determined by where I personally stand. Meaning, if I still want to grow and I am already, as John Maxwell says, the biggest fish in the pond, it might not be the right environment. So it might not be good in terms of being in that environment. Although it's nice, it's comfortable, everything's fine. But if I have outgrown that environment, maybe it's time to say bye to that one and find a new one where I can grow,

learn and become.

How did it evolve once you had arrived in Berlin?

I had so much experience that I thought, of course I can do this, this is a job for me. And with all of that internal encouragement I just applied. They invited me, and I actually got to the last round, where I had to do a case study kind of thing, where this is a scenario.

What would you do? And they had all these words of senior management, and I'm like, I never heard about this. What is this analysis? What is that? And I just gave it my best shot. And they came back and said to me, unfortunately we can't give you the senior management role. However, we see a lot of potential in you and where you are right now.

And we have created for you a leadership role underneath the senior manager, if you want it. And of course I said yes. But I gave it the shot.

So that's my story with different environments.

What were your key takeaways from that time?

my boss and I were both new. We were at the same assessment and job application.

However, we did not have the best connection to where we could get the information we needed to really find our ways. So there was no full clarity and vision from him. How can I then have that, because my boss does not have it? So I needed mine, and I had a team that also needed one. So you can see how that already looks. And simultaneously to that,

I felt I had to catch up with knowing all the devices. They have so many different electronics, with little letters and numbers next to them, and what they can and can't do. There was so much at once that it was quite overwhelming.

So that's where I started. I needed to sift through. I had to think about how do I actually apply leadership. I wasn't aware of it at the beginning, because my focus was so much on, how can I swim now?

I have to learn a ton.

Everything is changing. Most likely Sony doesn't even know how things look. It was hard. It was really hard. Plus I now had a team that also started at the same time. The pressure was there.

Finding myself in this happened once that was settled. We had more structure and knew who's doing what, how are we doing it, and it got much better.

For me, I'm a servant leader, so I like to look from the perspective of how can I add value to the team. And in that, I also had conversations with people outside of the company, when I felt I needed a mentor or someone to talk to. And at the time they had different postures on certain things.

And that's the first thing I tapped into. Which was, on one side, looking retrospectively, good, to see that I'm not too whatever to get my hands dirty. However, it also shaped the expectation that I would do that forever, because later on I had difficulties getting out of that self made

role of, I'm just your peer here. Not meaning in terms of how I look at you, but in terms of what our roles are and what my job basically is. So then I had difficulty with, okay, how do I get this disentangled now?

They can come to me if they really have a question that no one can answer, that they can't find, or they don't know where to go. But starting that was crucial. To empower them to do their job and to grow in it, but also for me to keep the time free for what my actual role there was. At that time I would say that was more like training and managing certain things, until I could actually really lead.

So what I was doing, not knowing it at that time, is carving through management to get me to leadership, if that makes sense.

Before, there was much more pressure. Pressure of myself, for myself, but also pressure that then extended to my coachee, because they wanted to get somewhere, I wanted to help them get there, and they're not getting there fast enough, so to say. Or, don't you see it? Whatever might be going on within me at that time. Instead of a reflective question, being more directive because of that. But these are little nuances, and all of this has shaped me in how I lead them, and what they then sense and likewise multiply.

And if we break out a little bit of the classical coaching, I also have students of mentoring, and maybe coaching that is, yes, with the directive part. I share my stories there as well, which they value a lot. So that helps them. And how I coach is again by going first. I'm modeling that, that is how I lead them.

I model to them how, a very simple example, how feedback could look, for instance, different from what they thought it could be. Modeling it through, have you thought about X, Y, Z? What do you understand that the other person might have gone through, or imagined, or felt like? Where they're like, I've never thought about that. So this is how I lead them, where I can see it.

Also there is multiplication happening. Some people have even said, well, Ebony, now I'm doing what you did, now I understand what that was all about. And this is a silent multiplication, I would say, of good, favorable skill sets or qualities that I could leave with others, because I have been through it and understand where they're coming from and what could be a challenge to them.

How would you help me out of that? Or is that question in itself already kind of the trap, because then I'm again getting away from that coaching mindset of nowhere to go?

So in the coaching conversation I would ask these questions, probing questions, reflective questions about certain things that come to realization for the coachee who has this problem. When I start to see, okay, this loop is happening, even as the person is talking about the loop, so in real time, I would then intersect and would say, okay, what do you understand when I tell you that at the beginning you started here, and now you're here, as you talk about this repeating itself?

What comes to your mind right now? I would bring it back as a reflection. Do you see the pattern yourself, that is just happening, and what do you need right now, maybe, that helps you to step out of it? What are the learnings that you have gathered throughout this entire process that have actually helped you to have less pressure, or to alleviate the burden that is there? Where would you like this burden to be?

We would find ways of, what do you want to do with this cycle, or with this burden? When they come back into the loop thinking, to help them get out of the loop thinking, by again bringing it back, like, that's the mirror.

And then they start reflecting on the next one. My job is to help them stay in the positive loop, of getting out either through new revelation about that, or at least leaving it there for later. Like, what just happened?

Does that make sense?

to get you there, and maybe to interrupt you, to be frank. Someone says, Ebony, if you see something, please tell me. I'm like, well, what I'm seeing right now, correct me if I'm wrong, is the following. Then I summarize and I just give back what I just observed. And they're like, thank you for that, that's exactly it.

And that's enough, usually, for them to take the next steps.

You learned how to network within the Sony corporation. And I guess all of these things you also took with you then in your freelance career. So now I'm wondering, what were the formal learning steps that you took to then eventually become a freelance coach?

So that's the next thing I did. I left Sony after my last position, with this wonderful man who was my last boss. And when I left, I had to decide what to do now. And I took this opportunity to say, you know what, you always wanted to try to have your own business and to freelance, or however you call it.

So that's what I did. Where I went is to the Job Center.

I went there and I discussed it and I told her, this is what I actually want to do, can you help me there? And they said, yes, we can. Instead of you getting unemployment money, you get the money to set up your own freelance business. So I said, well, I want to go this way. And that's what we did.

So we applied the investment of that fund into that. That was my formal step. And then obviously I had to go to the authorities to register the company. And when you are a freelancer it's a lot easier, you just use your name and give the company a name.

It doesn't take long.

So I thought, okay, let me have a look. That was the second one. And then I started working as a coach, and of course had to find my way. I thought I'd start with low hanging fruit, and as you just mentioned, I knew how to network and I like to speak to people.

So I went to a business breakfast around my corner. And as I went there, the people sitting there introduced themselves, but I had a feeling of, ah, it's more about eating than really doing something. So it was my turn then, and I was like, this is who I am, this is what I do. And then one gentleman at the end got up and said, Ebony, I would like to meet you.

And I'm like, who are you? He's like, well, I'm running a business. And what we do is, we have coaches in our company and we basically give them clients, either from the job center, they have a lot of coaching clients there, or from private companies that need coaching.

And then from there, the same day even, he spoke to me and he's like, you should meet so and so, she is there. And I'm like, I'm going to go home, get my papers and be there in half an hour. I said okay, went home, got my stuff, went to her, signed the deal, and the rest is history with that one.

It's different to say, I'm Ebony Fagbuyi, I do X, Y, Z, than, I'm Sony, I'm leading X, Y, Z. There's Sony behind your back. So that was different, and that's my first step into it, and the certifications I did with it.

I would not consider it a full certification to become a trainer, coach or speaker by going there live. It's an online program. You really have to immerse yourself to go through this online program, rather than becoming that by having three days of something.

I like to network in general, but I don't subscribe straight to a network, because of commitment. I'm a person, if I do that, then I'm fully committed. I'm not just doing it like, okay, I'm here once and then bye bye.

However, networks I believe are good for all these reasons. And also for display, of course, especially if you start. You have platforms, and if you go in there and are friendly to people, get to know them, they get to know you, then you land on a metaFox platform, right in the podcast.

Hello everyone. So that's why I believe it's a good thing to do that. And to see wider than your own atmosphere.

So from that I could acquire customers or clients who say, that's what I need, and I want Ebony as my mentor to help me go through the process. Clients in the sense of coaching clients, I don't do that, I don't have that. What comes in terms of partnerships is the lady I mentioned with regard to coaching service providers.

A colleague of mine got me into a gig, so to say. She is also a John Maxwell member. So we are friends, we meet, we coach each other with regard to accountability. But that happens through building friendships, and coming up with ideas to say, hey, I could use some help as an accountability partner.

It's quite some investment.

So I had others where they said, you will earn 60, 65 US dollars per hour, where I'm like, no, sorry. And then there are others who say, we pay you 120 euros or dollars. So one has to decide where they are right now, what they feel comfortable with.

If you earn 65 euros, congratulations. When I started, I made 18 euros per hour. So I'm not saying this from a standpoint of, make 400, 500, 600. I'm embarking on my master level mostly to be acknowledged.

It took a long time, many, many hours, and two decades to get there. So that's where I'm talking from. I just want to make that clear.

She reached out and said, Ebony, are you interested? And I said, I am. And that's how they found me and I found them.

Are you accredited here? Do you have that? And I'm like, oh my goodness, I don't have that. So I finally said, I will do it. And once I have it, then thank you, it's done. So it was out of necessity, I would say, to do it.

How was the process of going through that certification?

So what I had to do is, I had to send in all my training material to showcase what I have learned. You do that online. You build your own membership profile there, and you have different things that you need to upload. Then you have to let them know how many hours were synchronous or asynchronous, because they also have certain regulations on that. You also fill in the hours that you have done coaching.

For MCC now it's 2,500 hours, I believe, that you need to have.

You also need, I believe, 10 hours of mentoring.

And from that mentoring, you create two recordings of your coachings that you think showcase the level you are applying for. They should have a certain length. So there are also requirements here. You have a transcript with it, you upload it. And once you have fulfilled all of these things, then they will check everything.

And once they say everything's green light, then you have to do a test at the end, which takes three hours or three and a half hours. You can do that on site in a building where they have an observer there, or you can do it at home, which I did remotely. Which is next level observation, I would say. But I did it, I made it, and I was happy to get approved.

I would just summarize about the journey and the business building of a coach. What I think is wonderful and necessary is, in my opinion, your own life experience. I would like to highlight that again. I know we once talked about, do you need to have leadership skills to be able to coach leaders?

And back then I would have said, no, not at all, you can coach anyone as long as you can coach. Which is still my belief. However, I believe once you have gone through a certain experience, any kind of thing, you have a different view, perspective, empathy, all of these things, just due to that, due to the way you can relate.

So I would say, if someone wants to embark on leadership coaching, find opportunities to lead, because that will help you become a better coach for leaders.

From my personal perspective the more important part is that you have this empathy and understanding, as you just summarized it nicely, not so much the title. But still, to go through the hoop, if you want to go there, make sure that you take that into consideration as you become that coach, that you actively seek out roles where you can be a leader and an executive yourself.

And if you say, Tobi, that's all nice, but I found Ebony's client acquisition through coaching providers much more relevant and interesting for me, then I have two things. On the one hand, we link the companies Ebony works with, NILO, Sharpist, BetterUp, in our show notes. On the other, I would also like to recommend our very first episode with Marcel Häbold, who as an HR consultant and coach takes a similar, but also slightly different, approach, working as a subcontractor of consulting agencies.

Either way, if you enjoyed this episode, share it with a friend. Follow us on Spotify, YouTube, Apple, or wherever you listen to podcasts. That really helps us a ton. This was the Making of a Coach. I am Tobi from metaFox. All the best, and until next week.