Innovation Consultant Paris Thomas: Leveraging AI and Business Model Canvas for Success

have a job of being an innovation manager, innovation director. Most people think, I have a job description that says, here are the jobs to be done, and nowhere in that job description does it say, I need to fail. But innovation comes with that job description. The job description is simple. Get out there and fail as much as possible, as quickly as possible and as cheaply as possible.

Maybe you know that situation. For us, I always thought this was a marketing problem. The few people who had attended the workshop were actually quite enthusiastic, but maybe there are still issues with how we design and frame the offer, and how that connects to our customer persona. So today I'll explore with Paris Thomas, who's not only a leadership trainer but also an experienced innovation consultant,

how we as entrepreneurs, solopreneurs and consultants can leverage AI and methods like the business model canvas and customer segmentation to really revolutionize these kinds of innovation processes. I'm Tobi from metaFox, and welcome. On this demo episode of the Making of a Coach you can firstly listen to Paris and me, and later

it might also be worth getting out your phone and checking what's happening on the screen. Enjoy, and let's go.

So in our last session we explored and really got to know in depth Paris the leadership development trainer. There's also a different side to you, which is Paris the innovation consultant. You started the first startup accelerator in Cyprus,

and you've also worked as a consultant for Strategyzer. And that makes me wonder, what brought you from leadership training to innovation?

When I went to do my graduate studies, I always had this dream of becoming an inventor. So I would build things, I applied for patents. I would use CAD software, the early days of Google SketchUp, if you remember this, this was the early two thousands, and just find a way to visually manifest my ideas in such a way as to either get traction or use that to do something with it.

I have a huge folder of ideas that I've tinkered with. But at some point I came across this book called The Art of Innovation by Tom Kelley, who's the COO of IDEO, one of the leading firms, and the one that popularized the design thinking methodology. And that's when I had the aha moment, that it doesn't mean I have to be an inventor, but I can be an innovator.

And I saw how my personality, my love for communication and getting people to work better together, coupled with innovation as a discipline, I could find a home. So that was the beginning. And then through my career, starting my own company in learning and development, I got into entrepreneurship, which is all about innovation and being agile and looking at that mindset.

And eventually, at some point, I crossed paths with Alex Osterwalder, who is the inventor of the business model canvas, the value proposition canvas, five bestselling books, all sorts of great stuff that's now considered the number one toolkit for innovation and value creation around the world.

So that was back in 2012. I was also running two other startups. We started the accelerator, I had my own startup, I had the learning and development company. Some of you who are listening to this might be wondering, that's not a good thing. And you're right, it's not. I had way too much dilution of focus, but a lot of love for exploring and figuring out things.

My journey led me to work closely with Alex Osterwalder to deliver this toolkit to corporates. I worked a lot with startups. Three to 400 startups a year I would train. We co-founded the largest global green ideas competition, called Climate Launchpad, in partnership with the European Union.

That got me traveling all over the place to train entrepreneurs. But then you realize that startups don't pay. The same mindset is also very useful for corporate startups, and that's where I ended up, using that as my playground to go and deliver value to them.

So I've used innovation tools, I've coached hundreds of teams. I've seen ideas go from a shower, where somebody had the thought of an idea, all the way to, now we're in the product, we're in the market selling a product. I've experienced what the pivots are, and I know what it's like to go home after you realize you need to pivot and cry in an embryonic position, because you're sad.

But then eventually, with time, you realize that you've been educated by the market. Now we're in 2025, and in the last two years I've followed a journey that allowed me to answer the question, is AI one day going to take over my job? Is AI going to sabotage my job as a consultant and advisor on topics of innovation and entrepreneurship?

And the best way to answer that question was to do it. So we built the tool that fired me, and now we have Rapid Visual as a spinoff of our venture studio here, where we basically created an AI that is, almost on a daily basis, scaring us as to what it can do. And it's still early days, but it's getting a lot of traction and I'm very excited about it.

You just mentioned it. What would be an example from your entrepreneurial path?

That, today, is this.

This is an Insta360.

So everything I was telling my clients to do, I didn't follow that advice. The best advice, I realize now, is that you need to have good mentors. I didn't have good mentors, because I was a mentor, so why would I need a mentor? That was a big lesson learned. Nowadays I have an advisory council of people telling me what I need to hear.

That is really important, because we focused on building the technology instead of figuring out if there's a market for it. We spent some money, we invested in it, we spent time. The key thing to understand, to make it simple, is that there are always going to be assumptions about what your ideal future looks like.

So my rule of thumb is, if you can build something in less than two weeks, build it first. Get that off your chest and then go test with the thing you built. But if you can't, if it's the next electric vehicle, figure out ways to experiment.

And there are many ways nowadays that we know of to get out in the market and get some really good evidence, data points to help you course correct that idea towards a better place. And that's what we built Rapid Visual for: the ability to help you have that conversation with your team and figure out, what does the business model look like?

What else could it look like? How can I align with my team so I can begin my work towards validating whether I should build it?

About a year and a half into this venture I was visiting New York, on a mission with my accelerator to meet investors for the startups that I was coaching. And, as a geek, I went to the ultimate Disneyland for electronics, a shop in New York called B&H Photo. And for those who might not know B&H Photo, imagine an entire New York City block, three floors high, only electronics.

And so I went there and there was an entire section on 360 degree video. And I went to find the salesperson in that section, who was educated not only by understanding the technology, but more importantly by talking to customers all day long. And I had a one hour conversation with him.

I never told him what we were trying to build. I was just quizzing him, only to realize that nobody cares, nobody's buying, and this section is going to be dismantled soon, because DJI and GoPro are coming up with something new very soon. If only I had known that on day one, which was a year before that.

So it wasn't that far off. And then my advice that I give to people is, when you're thinking of building a product or a service, find something adjacent to it, something that's similar, that you probably will be competing with for the same job to be done. Find the person whose job is to sell that thing, and take them out to dinner.

Heck, pay for their vacation and spend a week with them if you can. They're a goldmine, because they're interviewing customers all day long. It's their job. And obviously that's not always possible. But what we help to do is get people to understand that you need to get out of the building and talk to potential customers.

You cannot outsource that to consultants. You need to get out and listen to it. And so we have a systematic method that allows you to do that. I'm now in the process, myself and a fellow advisor from Strategyzer, Christian Doll, of, well, together we invented this system of how to get you prepared and how to have conversations with customers.

And we're now in the process of actually writing that as a book. So, very excited for that.

which learning or advice from this product innovation world is underused from the perspective of facilitators and coaches?

What we've been trying for a year already is putting out training offerings for our clients. How can I best work with the stronger you strengths cards, or how can I use the power of pictures in my coaching and facilitation practice?

We thought, let's not build a three day program, or even a seven day journey, no bootcamp like you are doing, but let's build a 90 minute training program. And the people who attended were also really enthusiastic and loved it. But we also figured, ah, this hour and a half thing, it's kind of too small.

It's not a certification, I cannot say I'm now a better coach. And it's also too big to just be a webinar where I say, okay, let me take half an hour during my lunch break to get a small prompt, a small teaser.

And this is the world we live in. I mean, our course was five weeks when we started. Who wants to do a five week course? They want it in five hours, or five minutes if you can give it to them. If I could plug into their brain, they would choose that every time. Nobody's going to sit there to watch five hours if they could plug in for five minutes and get an upgrade in their mind.

So that's the way to frame things, and the way to get to those conclusions is through coaching and mentoring, or with the help of AI. So why don't we do this? We'll take your business model, which will include products as a preamble, but then we can edit it. And one of the key things to know is that the way we created this AI tool is to allow you to edit things.

It's not a place where you make decisions with AI. AI gives you better alternatives, so you can decide where you want to take it, and also be able to edit it. So, start from a place of edit is our mantra here. And the way to do that is, first, let me show you. Are you ready? Should we get into it? This is Rapid Visual, which helps you make smarter business strategy decisions.

And it does that by instantly visualizing those strategies, with AI trained experts and guided insights. So there's a lot of IP in here from the world of innovation, from my experience and other people in my network who basically came together to say, let's train this thing to do our job.

And so that's the homepage, that you can browse through, but it allows you to do certain things that you can see are quite visual. Now I'm logging into a dummy account I call garage. And in garage I have a few examples I usually do as demos. So the first thing I'll do is, I'll create a new business model.

We're going to call this metaFox. And here I can also put in the context and the question I'm wondering about. Now, in the world of AI, anything you type anywhere in this tool is training the AI. So I can't just type anything.

So for now I want to leave it empty, because I'm going to get there faster in a more unique way. Here's your business model. It's a blank business model canvas and it doesn't say anything. So we can spend the next 10, 20 minutes creating it one by one. But why would I? So what I've done is, I went into ChatGPT and I said, give me a business model using the business model canvas as a framework

for this company. And in there I put the link to your website. Now what I will do here is, I will import this link. I'm going to take a prompt that is recommended in Rapid Visual and I'm going to go back to my ChatGPT.

Eventually, in a few days actually, we're going to have this built into the tool itself. I can see here already your business model, but I'm going to drop this prompt in here and I'm going to send it. So what will happen now is that ChatGPT already did the hard work of going through your website and understanding what you do, and reconfiguring that as a business model canvas.

And so they're the nine ingredients to make a business. You have the value proposition. What is it that you offer to your customer segments? So, who are the customer segments, and what revenue are you creating from them? Not how much, but the revenue stream. What are the revenue types? Subscription, transaction.

Then you have your distribution channels. How do the customers reach out to get access to your value proposition? On the metaFox website it's your official website and social media, this is how they reach you. For example, if we take one customer segment, professional coaches, they want to come to you because they want access to visually engaging coaching tools, which are cards, cubes and visuals to aid reflection and discussion.

This is what you offer to that audience. You also offer that to corporate trainers. And you also have an additional customer segment, the educators and facilitators, to whom you offer free educational resources. At least that's what the AI understood from reading your website. And it's a nice brand audit here.

The channel is your official website, which I'm going to do some color code correction on because it signifies relationships here, and also your social media. That's how people reach you currently. And what you offer to create relationships with these customers is the newsletter and free content that you deliver.

And you also offer customer support. So if we stop here, as we explain the business model canvas,

what do you get as revenue? You have product sales, that come from your visually engaging coaching tools, and you have partnership development, which covers collaborations on custom tool creation, which is derived from your educators and facilitators customer segment.

So the AI is asking, what are the key activities that folks at metaFox do really well to be able to sustain this business model? Things like product design and development, which I know you do. E-commerce management, which I also know you do, because you're selling stuff online. And community engagement, which you obviously must do, especially with your educators and facilitators.

So it's guessing, to say, to be able to give this business model to the world, what are the things I need to be really good at? It's not everything, it's just the key things. Usually five, six, seven things maximum.

And then you have, what are the key resources that you need to be able to do that? Well, I need a product development team. Without that I'm not going to be relevant or fresh with what I'm offering to the world.

And I need to have a digital infrastructure. That's probably going to be one of my cost drivers. If I look at my costs below, you have product development, you have manufacturing and logistics, and you have marketing and engagement. And probably we should also add IT development here as a cost, for all your infrastructure.

So that gives us a bit of a sense of what your business model is like. But it also gives us the opportunity to see who you need to partner with to be able to bring this business model to life. And it says coaches and trainers are customers and partners in some ways. Is that accurate?

Understand, is it super accurate? Am I happy with this? If I was briefing a team of McKinsey consultants, would this be the information I would give them, or would I correct it? Because if it's garbage in, it's garbage out, and it costs a lot to hire McKinsey, so you would give it as much of your attention as possible.

That's the same mindset you need to have here. So once you've done that, let's assume we did, and this is the result of what it looks like.

So that's one thing.

First, let's see if the AI would recommend it. I clicked on plus on value proposition and I clicked on generate value propositions. What is happening now is, the AI is reading everything that we gave it, and it's saying, if this is the business, what else could they offer that utilizes and leverages the existing infrastructure, with a few additions perhaps, but that makes sense to add to their suite of offerings? As it's doing that,

I'm going to prepare, in case it doesn't suggest online courses, and I'm going to write online courses, which I can manually introduce to my business model here. I'm just going to change its color to blue. But before that, we have the results. Now, you could do an interactive mobile app, customizable workshops, community forums, AI driven insights, gamified coaching tools, subscription based content, personalized learning paths, virtual reality experiences, live webinars and events, integration with CRM systems, mental health resources, and cultural sensitivity training.

So does any one of these look like what you had in mind, or maybe different, but interesting enough to pursue?

And I can see that combining three of these post-its.

So once we put it in, then we go in and say, building a learners community. Was there a particular topic you wanted to tackle here, to make it more specific?

Corporate trainers. What are their age brackets, their gender, their location? But you don't have to start from scratch. You start from a place of edit. So the AI took a stab at what it could look like, and it decided to present it to you and you get to influence that.

So what we see now is that the tool went in and decided to give you an explanation of the customer segment. So, corporate trainers, age 25 to 65, tech savvy, education and HR professionals, and so on.

An example of that audience is Leo Perez, who is from New York. And Leo Perez is a seasoned corporate trainer with a passion for innovative learning technology. So it gives you a persona. It's always nice to put a face and a name to the customer segment. And on the right we see the jobs to be done, pains and gains

of this particular person. And that's a tool popularized by Clayton Christensen that allows you to explore what the primary things are that they're trying to accomplish, in the context of the space where they're trying to create that innovation. So in the space of online learning, what are the types of things they're trying to get done?

For example, design engaging training content, maximize learner engagement, facilitate community building. What are some of the obstacles that might be there? High dropout rates in training sessions, or lack of engagement from participants. And what you do is, you go through this in such a way as to accept the recommendations of the AI or decline them,

so that by the end of the polishing you have no more check marks and X marks left on this canvas, because you have now transferred ownership to you.

What do you think is usually more detailed, more beefy, more qualitative, better overall? A large language model that knows everything about these people that's out there in the world, or you and your four colleagues who are guessing? And I found the quality of the output of these workshops to go up 10 times.

Even if I sit there as a coach, if I don't know this audience I can't tell you. But really it doesn't matter, because the job isn't actually to know. The job is to have a starting place, so you can get out of the building and interview people like Leo to find out if what you have is true or not. So this is your preparation.

It's not your final output. And to do that, you start to profile the customer. And then the next thing you do is, you create a customer value scene. The way you do that is, you select your value, which is the on demand online learning blended with workshops.

Once you select your value proposition, you also select the job you want to manifest here. So maybe maximize learner engagement, and lack of engagement from participants. So once I say, please go ahead and create that storyboard for me, what will happen is that the AI will create a visual storyboard that you can then use in your interviews with these potential customers, to explain to them what possible value you might be able to offer them.

The moment of need is basically the one area where you articulate where the problem is. Today is the second area, where you articulate what they do today. And tomorrow is what can happen with your value proposition in mind.

But it's told as a cartoon. So, the moment of need: I wish there was a way to make these sessions more engaging. But today, at least they're paying a bit more attention today, if you were to do it as a workshop, maybe. And tomorrow: this online workshop is fantastic,

everyone is participating and learning so much. So now you have a place, again, of edit. You can change the narrative, you can change the script, you can change what the image looks like. You have a starting point. I see that eight out of 10 times it's good enough as it is, but we started a bit more generically, so making it explicit is key.

Maybe it's a feature of the thing you have in mind that we want to test here. But we also addressed it with the job and the pain of engagement, that was inspired by the profile that was driven by the AI's knowledge of that particular customer segment. There's so much knowledge that was in play to get us to where we are right now.

We're going to get out of the building, we're going to talk to these people to see how correct or incorrect we might be. And that's the learning process. Now, with that in mind, a final thing I want to show you is that you do this for your customer segments,

you do this for your value propositions, you create your multiple value scenes, but eventually what you want to get to is a conversation around your business model. What else needs to happen in your business model? How can I strengthen this particular business model? And let me show you something in that direction.

So what I'm showing you now is back to your original business model. I opened a feature called strategic lenses, and here is where you have access to thought leaders. For example Michael Wilkins, who is a partner of mine in Denmark, who's come up with a concept called resilience as a strategy, which is all about improving your revenue so that you have not more revenue, but better revenue.

Subscription based, fixed based revenue is 20 times the value of revenue that's generated by a lot of sales effort every year, that's unpredictable. So this is a huge win for leaders who say, I want to improve the valuation of my company, I want to get more stability and predictability in my revenues.

Everything is good news when you have better revenue, not just more revenue. So what's happening right now is, the AI is having a conversation that almost feels like eight AI agents walk into a coffee shop and have a coffee together talking about metaFox. It takes around 10 minutes for this conversation to finish, because there's a deep research component going on between multiple AI models, about your business.

One of these AI models is Michael's AI twin. So he's in there driving that conversation, facilitating a conversation with other AI agents, who are going to hopefully give us some really interesting insights as to what you could do to your business to drive better revenue.

So now what you can see is that the conversation is finished. We have seven different criteria: customer retention, prepayment, contract length, co-development, data and digitalization, community and fans, personal relationships. And you also have a score. So let's go to the one that has the lowest score, which is contract length, which is minus three, and unpack that a little bit.

What we see here is the key question that was asked by the AI, which was, how much of the revenue for the coming year is on fixed contracts? On a minus three to plus three scale, it's minus three. Why? All current revenue streams are one-off or variable sales with no legally binding, multi-year or minimum commitment contracts. Which makes sense.

That's what you put into the business model. But it also gives you advice. What could you do? Design an annual subscription or licensing model for physical and digital tools. Well, how? Guess what, if you look at the business model, it's giving you what those shifts might look like. For example, an annual subscription license would be added to your revenue streams.

Subscription onboarding and account management would be added to your customer relationships. An automated renewal portal would be added to your channels. And if you like what you hear and you read all that stuff, then you go and apply the shift, and then you get your leadership team on board and you get to go out there and talk to more customers to figure out if they will pay for this.

But now you've just received incredible advice, and this is just one of many pieces around better revenue, and multiple lenses around other configurations. You end up in a place where you're having a conversation with an AI model that admittedly has more information about the world than I ever will, but has been trained on my knowledge, so that it has guardrails to make the advice specific.

And so the idea is that using AI as an empowerment and an enabler and an enhancing tool is what has been referred to by our clients as thoughtful use of AI. It's a tool that helps you design a better strategy. Why? Because it actually comes up with better alternatives. And that's the idea behind Rapid Visual and the work we do there.

Look, what do you think about that moment of need that I show you on this small prompt picture that I created with Rapid Visual? Does that moment of need actually arise in your reality?

It doesn't replace talking to customers. It doesn't replace people to people interaction, but it accelerates it. And so what we're looking at now is, could you get a phone call from an AI agent who has been trained on this methodology and this content, to run an interview with you?

So you're not talking to me as a human, but the AI agent is talking to a human customer. The answer is yes, we can do that right now. And the person will know they're talking to an agent. In some cases they won't even figure out the difference, because it sounds so good and so real. But then, is that enough?

And my answer is no. You still need to pick up the phone and call some people. But whereas in the past you had to talk to a statistically significant number of 25 customers, now you could run 20, 100, 1,000 interviews led by AI agents in one hour, because you hit a button and a thousand interviews happen concurrently.

You get the data, you have the ability to course correct, and you find where it's an even more interesting rabbit hole to go into. And there you call them yourself. So there's a sequential change that's going to happen in how we create focus. I don't have to do everything from scratch all the time.

The person might say yes or no. For those of them who said yes, depending on what the content was, you then have permission to just pick up the phone and call them, because they said so. So it actually gets easier to have interviews when you have the AI agent do the filtering for you.

The Google search engine. When was the last time you googled stuff like that? It's an index card of all the possible places you can look for the answer. And why not go to ChatGPT or Gemini or any one of the other ones? It gives you the answer. Site traffic is suffering right now. Web, SEO and everybody who's doing that, they're suffering right now, because, I don't know if we realize it, the search engine is gone.

You have a search brain that's going to give you the answer and where they got it from. Why would you need to go through all that? So a Google Form, to people, very soon, if not already, is an old tool. And they're changing in front of our eyes. But I think the novelty can be used as an opportunity, and you can leverage that right now.

I've just created today, this morning, an agent you can talk to live. So if you want to talk to the CEO of Rapid Visual, I have an interactive version of myself. You can ask me questions and I will respond back, but I might be with my kids having fun. And on the website you know it's not me, but kind of, it's kind of cool.

When in our history did we have an opportunity to do Q and A unlimited? And it's fascinating. People will go to that thing and ask questions. What did Paris say about this thing, can you remind me? And then, not only does it answer questions about the workshop, it also starts giving recommendations,

maybe cross-selling, upselling, figuring out opportunities for more value creation for us. How long does it take me to make that agent? Five minutes. And it's the ultimate sales agent.

I mean, it's a different world. And if you're still wondering, but I'm not a Teams person, come on, get over it. The tech stack is evolving in front of our eyes, and you need to be relevant, because it's not a choice, it's a survival tactic. And that's my mantra for over a decade now. Being relevant is not a choice, it's a survival tactic.

have a job of being an innovation manager, innovation director. Most people think, I have a job description that says, here are the jobs to be done, and nowhere in that job description does it say, I need to fail. But innovation comes with that job description. The job description is simple. Get out there and fail as much as possible, as quickly as possible and as cheaply as possible.

And if you do that all the time, you will stumble upon something very interesting that's going to be called Gmail.

So we reached out to them, with their permission, to say, you're getting the beta, but we're going to need to talk to you for an hour when you finish the beta, and you're going to need to answer a survey. That was the contract. And so they responded to this survey. One of the questions was, if you were to pay for this from your disposable income, what would be the maximum amount of money you would pay?

And obviously pricing questions are tricky. A bad question is, how much would you pay? A better question is, what's the maximum you would pay? So there are some nuances, and experience tells you where to be careful.

And then, we were expecting people to say around 800 to 900 dollars, but 20 people responded and the average was around 85. And that was a really bad shock to the system. We were wondering, oh my goodness, we're not creating as much value as we were expecting. And at that point, based on what you said before, I should have said, fail, move on.

But we didn't. We said, let's actually talk to somebody and ask, why did you say what you said? And we got on the first interview and said, John, why did you put 95 dollars? And John said, because I tried to put a lot more, but the field was limited. The maximum I could put was 100. I go, oh my goodness.

We've just stumbled on a system failure. And although we had rigorously tested it, we hadn't cleaned our cookies, and we should have checked our survey from an incognito browser. We had limited them. So that created a frame of mind. If they think that it's worth a hundred dollars maximum, well,

I'll put 95. So in that context, 85 was good as an average. Then we fixed the mistake and then the responses came back again. After 10 people the average was 23, and now we go, it's a failure. So we get on a call and ask another person, why did you say

23? And he goes, well, you know how in the field you sometimes have an example answer? It said, for example, 27. And I'm looking at the team like, are you kidding me? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. What happened here? Some system error, it was Typeform we were using I think, actually put in an example that we didn't put there. So we created anchoring, psychological anchoring.

If they think the example is 27, I'll put 23. We go for a third round. 1,200, 1,100, 1,300. Same course, same value. Just the psychology behind the testing changed the output. And that was amazing to see. So eventually we got on interviews and we validated with everybody, including the ones that said a hundred.

Once we explained, we said, hi, can you take another stab? How much would you pay? Of course they didn't put as much as the other people put, but they were already primed in a way that we could not correct, because that created a bias.

The B2C, where I just buy and do the self-service course, doesn't really seem to work. How do you explain that?

I mean, the course is quite expensive compared to the sea of online courses on Udemy, Coursera, LinkedIn Learning. You're talking double digits, like 20 bucks, nine bucks, and this is three digits. And so it's obviously a big ask. So to have the right to ask for that much money, you need to create the right priming, community based or referral based, for people to see that there's that much value in it, that I will pay from my disposable income to buy it.

It's a difficult nut to crack, but we're working on it.

A-B testing, different markets, different languages. Maybe it's a cheap course that gives you a teaser so you can get into something bigger. And we can sell a B2B one that's way more expensive, that has a lot of high touch stuff in it.

So it's not easy. And when you see a success, people think it's overnight, but there are years of failure before that success.

So being in that world, I think, just uplifted me and everybody else around me as well, and how we consider training and development.

We made sure they had access to ChatGPT and we actually bought the licenses for them. We were then at the hotel, and we had only checked the software limitations, but their computers were hardwired to block it.

So suddenly I'm in a place where we have seven teams and they're supposed to work on this for the rest of the day. And it was midday and nobody could go to ChatGPT. And thankfully the AV company had some computers, some people had personal computers.

The hotel had a computer, and within 10 minutes we sourced seven computers that didn't have the limitation. We fixed it. And because we fixed it, I can laugh about it.

Anything that gets people to stand up and get the blood flowing and have a conversation. I know not everybody likes it, but nobody regrets doing it.

Favorite question to ask in a workshop.

I have kids too, it's not interesting. And who has pets? They put their hands up. I don't care. But now tell me something juicy that I'll talk about during the break, because you shocked me. And then some incredible stuff comes out, and then you have conversations that resonate for days.

In my mind I have the bootcamps. We were doing a series of workshops for a cruise company, so we had captains of vessels in our audience. And there were some moments of wisdom that kept coming from that particular audience, where you would see the most powerful people.

And a captain is literally God on a vessel. They can decide to marry you, bury you, everything. There's no other position that gives you that much power on a vessel. And they were the most quiet and attentive and listening folks, who you would otherwise think would have the legitimacy to be the opposite.

And I always took note of that, thinking that's incredible. The humility and the humbleness of people who have seen power and used it and have it, but in a learning situation could actually shut up and listen. And it was an indirect lesson, but it's one that I got again and again, because I worked a lot in shipping. And it's fascinating to see. Maybe not every captain is like that, but the ones that I've met validated that for me quite a few times.

And his question for you is, who are you not being?

And so I try to be sensitive to the power that's bestowed on anybody standing on a stage and commanding an audience. Because in those moments, those few hours, you have incredible energy to transfer to those people, and you can do it both positively or negatively. So I try as much as I can not to be that guy. And I feel I haven't, hopefully, but maybe we have to do an experiment and ask people to see what they think.

and which client or customer can you maybe quiz on how they actually see the world, and which pain points make them look for someone like you?

Doing this more is definitely one of my biggest learning points for today, besides all the fancy tools that Paris showed us. And nevertheless, I'll for sure also keep playing with Rapid Visual a bit more. And if you also want to do that, go to rapidvisual.ai and try everything for free for a week.

Paris created the code metaFox 15 for the entire Making of a Coach community, to get 15 percent off the pro version. Thanks for today, for staying until the very end of this slightly different episode. And I'd be curious, do you want more of this? Is it practical to have these very video driven episodes, or should we simply stick to audio on the podcast and publish those videos separately?

Let me know what you think about this, or give any other feedback. I'd be super curious to hear from you at tobias@metafox.eu. Looking forward. All the best on your journey, and until next week, bye bye.